What sort of last name is Afzali? Almost sounds Arabic? 
It is not, but it is true that I have two different passports with two different last names. I was born and raised in Spain, where my name is Ana Pérez Groba. In my native country, women don’t change their last name when they get married.

There’s a bartender at Zinque who married an Italian man named Splendorini. They got divorced but she kept the last name. Why wouldn’t she? Cool name.
After I moved to the U.S. in 1984, I got married and changed my last name. By the time I got divorced after 16 years of marriage, I had had an entire career in this country using Afzali so I saw no point in changing it back to my maiden name. Some people find it interesting that I have two ‘identities’ so to speak.

I Google translated the description for your latest book from Amazon: “The biography of the Republican commander Gonzalo Pando Rivero offers an intimate and detailed approach to the life of the doctor who changed the scalpel for the shotgun that fateful day in July 1936 after the Franco military uprising that gave rise to the Spanish Civil War. Pando, who always wanted to help the working class, became one of the most beloved commanders of the XI Division until he died in the battle of Brunete in July 1937 fighting with his men as commander of the Thaelmann battalion.

With this study, the historian Ana Afzali offers us the itinerary of a great character of the Civil War who fought until the end for democracy in Spain with such important figures in history as Dolores Ibárruri, Enrique Líster, José Miaja, Santiago Álvarez, Ernest Hemingway and Gerda Taro. It is a book that will not disappoint even the most demanding readers who seek to know the truth of the history of our country.”

Interesting that a doctor would change the scalpel for the shotgun. Do Spanish doctors have a Hippocratic oath? “First do no harm.” And was there a particular incident that inspired Dr. Rivero to take up arms?
As I explain in my book, Gonzalo Pando Rivero came from a family that gave a great deal to others. His father was a pharmacist that gave medicines for free to those in need, and was also mayor of the town where they lived. One of his uncles started the Red Cross in Spain, another the College of Doctors and the School for orphans of doctors. Gonzalo Pando started realizing very early on in his life how the working class was being treated by landowners and he was a true defender of Democracy. Before the war he saved lives. When the war broke out he tried to save Democracy and human rights and he gave his life in the process.

WINTER OF 1983: IMAGES FROM THE INTERVIEWER’S MUNDAKA SURF TRIP:

THE BEST WAVE IN EUROPE, NEAR THE HEART OF THE BASQUES

Speaking of Ernest Hemingway, I was sitting next to his granddaughter Mariel at Zinque. I told her the short story that got me hired at SURFER Magazine was about surfing in Spain, at a place called Mundaka a few miles from Guernica. I said I consciously tried not to sound like Ernest Hemingway, but found if you’re writing about Spain, you’re gonna sound like Hemingway.

And she smiled quietly to herself.
Interesting you should say that as I too met her a few weeks ago. I explained to her that most people think that the first time Fascists were defeated was in WWII, but actually it was in Guadalajara, Spain, in March of 1937. My great uncle, Gonzalo Pando Rivero, was the first one to defeat them in the town of Trijueque. Ironically, Ernest Hemingway was just a few kilometers away writing about this victory to send the article to the U.S. 

I write about that in my book as well. Her friend and co-anchor of their podcast Melissa Yamaguchi suggested during that conversation that I come to their studio for a podcast interview. I think that would be great fun.

What year was the bombing of Guernica? 
That happened a little after the victory in Trijueque. Guernica was bombed on April 26th of 1937. Hitler used this town as a rehearsal for WWII. The Spanish Civil War was truly bloody. Over half a million people lost their lives in the conflict and many more were executed after Franco came to power once the war was over.

On a European surf trip in 1983, we passed through Guernica to get to Mundaka. Had a couple wild fiesta nights in Guernica - the Vascas know how to party. In fact those parties kind of looked like the painting of Guernica.

Mundaka was epic then and hard to leave. I told all the Basque girls I was going to Madrid for a couple of days. They asked me why I was leaving the sunny surf for the shady turf of Madrid. They wouldn’t believe some surfer dude wanted to visit the Prado and see Guernica full size, so I jokingly told them I was going to spit on Franco’s grave.

They got all excited and said, “Yes! That’s what we do!”

I was kidding, They weren’t.
Franco did a lot of terrible things in Spain during the war and later during his almost four-decade dictatorship.  He also empowered the Catholic Church to do a lot of terrible acts, like steal newborn babies from their mothers to give them for adoption to right wing families. It is now coming to light that the Catholic Church took advantage of its situation and priests sexually abused thousands of children with impunity. The cases are now coming to light and I am glad for that. I hope victims receive the reparation and apology they deserve.

Franco was buried for a long time in the Valley of the Fallen, an enormous and grotesque-looking basilica a few kilometers north of Madrid which had been built by prisoners of the Spanish Civil War. Many lost their lives in the process and are actually buried there in a mass grave. After many demonstrations and complaints, the country came to terms with the fact that Franco’s grave needed to be moved elsewhere.

The Valley of the Fallen is no longer his Shrine, thank God.

 Is Franco being canceled in Spain, like America is canceling statues of Father Serra and Robert E Lee and other dudes who ended up on the wrong side of history?
I would not say that, but we are trying to respect the hundreds of thousands that were on the other side of the conflict, who did not win the war but who were not wrong.

Albert Camus explained it best when he wrote, nine years after the Spanish Civil War: “It was in Spain that men learned that one can be right and yet be beaten, that force can vanquish spirit, that there are times when courage is not its own recompense. It is this, doubtless, which explains why so many men, the world over, regard the Spanish drama as a personal tragedy.”

Scary thought, in light of currently-divided America, that the good and the righteous don’t always win. Scary indeed.
Spain is, to this day, very much divided about the Spanish Civil War. There are those who still support Franco and his right-wing ideas, and just as many who think, like I do, that he destroyed Democracy in Spain and became a killer to hundreds of thousands of citizens.

So you are a Medievalist and earned your doctorate at UCLA and you are now a Professor, correct?

Yes, I have been a Professor in the Spanish Department at Citrus College since 1997. It is my second home; I love working there and students challenge me and help me keep current.

I have also been cooperating with the Smithsonian and I lecture for Smithsonian Journeys in Spain when my schedule permits.

In Hawaii I toured Shangri La - a home built by Doris Duke that is a live-in museum of Muslim art and architecture. A friend was just in Dubai and Morocco sending back photos of the edificios she visited, and there I saw that same symmetry. A lion on this side, a lion on that side. A door on that side, a door on this side. Am I wrong about that? Why are Muslims so obsessed with symmetry? 

Symmetry in Islam has a numerical significance, and the elements within are a representation of Islamic Iconoclasm, always related to numbers like 8 (perfection and infinity), 3, 5 and 7. All relevant to the Islamic understanding of concepts like Harmony and Cosmic symmetry.

When we spoke a few days ago you said that you gave a presentation about your book in Madrid, to an audience composed mostly of military personnel and Generals. Did that make you nervous? I’m sure the book was pro-Republican and anti-Fascist. Is there still a loud, violent right wing in Spain?

It did not make me nervous; I had a warm reception at the Military Historical Library of Madrid. I am very proud of our military and within it you will find people with very diverse political views.

We need to clarify to an American audience that in the Spanish Civil War, when we say “Republican” we actually mean “liberal” not to be confused with our concept of Republicans in the U.S. who are conservative.

I think Democracy is a lot more delicate than most people think. The tragedy of the Spanish Civil War showed that. This is one of the reasons why I think my work is so relevant right now. Our democracy is in trouble under the current political landscape.

How did you go from being a Medievalist to writing about the Spanish Civil War?

I grew up in Franco’s Spain. In 1970 my father died after a brief battle with cancer leaving my mother with seven children to raise on her own. With his death, the history of his family disappeared. In 1983 my mother married a U.S. Diplomat and I made a life in California. I always wanted to know more about my father and about his side of the family. In 2017 I received a call from a man in Spain who said he was my second cousin and that my paternal grandmother (who I barely knew) had 15 siblings who had major roles in the Spanish Civil War, mostly on the liberal side, but some were conservatives. I had absolutely no idea that they even existed. He was calling to invite me to the naming of a street with his grandfather's name. 
Luis Pando Rivero had been a Judge in Northern Spain in the 30’s. When the war broke out, he tried to resign as he had sworn loyalty to a constitution that no longer existed. He was not allowed to do so by the Fascists and instead he was incarcerated and later executed. The day after his execution the pardon arrived. His grandson was the cousin that called me.

This was the beginning of a journey of discovery of this incredible family. I started researching archives and interviewing descendants of my grandmother's 15 siblings.

When the pandemic hit I had taken the semester off from teaching at Citrus College and a series of historical presentations I was going to give in Spain for Smithsonian Journeys got canceled. So I locked myself in my home office and spent a year researching and writing. I wrote a book with the lives of all 16 siblings and presented it to 70 descendants in May of 2022, in Santiago de Compostela in Spain (where my father was born), in the month and year my father would  have turned 100 years old. It was truly an exceptional and emotional reunion.

It was during this research that I got to know my great uncle Gonzalo Pando Rivero, a Doctor who worked in several towns in Spain in the early 30’s and saw how farmers and the working class were being mistreated by the rich landowners. He started teaching the townspeople how to read and write, how to unionize and how to stand up for their rights. 

When the Franco troops invaded Spain from Morocco in July of 1936, Gonzalo Pando was in Rascafría, a town just north of Madrid. He went to the mountains with a small group of men and rifles and quickly became one of the most revered Commanders of the liberal side of the Spanish Civil War.

I was so drawn to his remarkable history, that in January of 2022 I also published a book about his life with photographs unknown to the general public up to that point. The book’s title is Gonzalo Pando Rivero: De Médico a Comandante Republicano de la Guerra Civil Española, and it is available on Amazon. 

Well I’ve always said, if you want to really understand something, write a book about it.
I chose to publish it first in Spain of course, but I am currently working on the English version, as well as a historical novel with the stories of the 16 siblings.

He sounds like a fascinating character; I would almost say a legend. How exactly did he die?
You must have heard of Robert Capa, the famous Spanish Civil War photographer. 

Yes, the very famous photo of The Fallen Soldier. I did a search for the photo to place here, and there is some stink that it was faked.
I recommend you watch the documentary “The Mexican Suitcase.” Well, his girlfriend, Gerda Taro, also photographed with him. In fact, the name Robert Capa is a pseudonym and both of them published their pictures under that name.

Gonzalo Pando and Gerda were both in Brunete in July of 1937. Pando was wounded by enemy artillery and Taro was run over by a Republican tank on the same day, July 25th. They were both rushed to a hospital in El Escorial. Gerda Taro died that night and Gonzalo Pando  on July 31st as a result of their injuries. 

Thousands of people attended his funeral. He was revered by his men and by his superiors alike. After the war was lost, no one mentioned his name in Spain because people were afraid of the new dictator.

There is a wonderful documentary on Netflix that explains what happened in Spain after the Spanish Civil War; it is called ‘The Silence of Others.’ Most people find it very enlightening.

Gonzalo Pando married his first cousin and he did not have children, so when Historians in Spain heard that I was writing a book about his life, they were thrilled. Up to that point there was barely any information about his personal life.

His story and that of his siblings were truly exceptional. In 2022 I had conversations with the Netflix studios in Madrid who loved the story. They were just wrapping up a series (I later learned that it was “The patients of Dr. García”) that had much in common - according to them - with my story to add it to their programming at that time so in the end they decided not to go with the project. I have no doubt that one day the story of Gonzalo Pando and that of his siblings will be a movie on the big screen or a TV series.

How was the reception of your book in Spain?

Exceptional. There were also many articles published there about this project. I was interviewed, among other people,  by Pablo Iglesias, the ex-Vice Prime Minister of Spain. During that interview he agreed with me that history is easy to forget and that this story should be told on the big screen as the world is about to repeat the mistakes of the past. I hope my book is a small contribution to make sure that does not happen.

Did anyone during your talk this month in the Military Historical Library rush the stage? A friend from Malibu was just giving a lecture at a college and got rushed by pro-Palestinians.
No. This was a very respectful audience. The presentation was followed by a very interesting series of questions from the attendees. I think information and dialogue are important in a world that is so divided.

Are they as obnoxious and wrong in Spain as the right wing in America?
You are asking me to give you my political views. I have stated this many times and I will repeat it now. I am a historian. My work is not political. I simply document what I have learned of our past so that it does not repeat itself in the future.

Well it’s tricky to be a historian and not be political but I understand. But a good 50% of America are dumber than dirt - which is disturbing - and there’s an entire industry, which I call The Idiot Industry, who are making money preying on the fears, insecurities and ignorance of those people.
As you know, I am now working on the English version of the book and on a historical novel. I hope it helps our younger generation guide our country in the right path. We are all one humanity in the end. The world is sick with hatred and it is in desperate need of inspiring stories that will bring people together.

How did you conduct your presentation? How many people were there? What was the venue like? Did it cause unrest?
I spoke for about an hour with a series of slides with fascinating pictures of the Spanish Civil War. In fact, in my book there is a picture taken about 30 minutes after Gonzalo Pando defeated the Fascists for the first time in our history, that had never been published until now. It came from the family archives and it looks like a scene out of a movie. I spoke about who he was, how he formed his ideas, why his soldiers revered him as did his superiors, spoke of the battles in which he fought and how he died, the public was very attentive, some taking notes, there were some reporters as well. 
It took place in the beautiful campus of the Military Historical Institute of Madrid, a serious research institution.
It did not cause unrest; it was a very academic and military setting. I felt very comfortable there. I had worked with one of the Commanders in this institution in uncovering some important documents about Gonzalo Pando. My relationship with this institution is wonderful and I could not have been more grateful for their invitation to Speak.

I wonder this about America: If there were a Civil War, how would the American military divide up? Would there be more might on the right, or more heft on the left? But that’s a political question.

I have never seen the world so divided. This was the case in Spain just before the Spanish Civil War in which hundreds of thousands of innocent people died and many more were displaced or had to leave the country. In the end we would all lose. That is one of the messages in my book.

Spain isn’t as troubled and noisy as some of the other European countries, I don’t think, although there have been some scandals. Didn’t the Royal Family get involved in something?

Juan Carlos, the former king of Spain has had a lot of scandals, to the point where he had to abdicate the throne for his son Felipe. I like our current king and queen. I think they are doing an exceptional job, but the country is truly divided as to whether we should have a monarchy at all.

How is Spain doing economically these days? 

Like in most of Europe, money is tight, and citizens are struggling. This I can tell you: people there are a lot happier with a lot less. I love Spain. It is a complex country with fascinating history and amazing people. It will always be in my heart.

Who was it that said: “Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.”
That is a Quote by George Santayana, a Spanish-American philosopher born in 1863. I agree with him, of course.

Your book and the subject matter are scarily relevant to today. Do you think America is as divided now as Spain was in the 1930s?
Yes, I do. I was actually thinking about how similar the political landscape was in Spain just before the Spanish Civil War as it was in the U.S. when I was writing this book in 2021. I took a lunch break that day and when I turned the TV on, I saw in horror how the U.S. Capitol was under attack, it was January 6.

There is a movie out right now called “Civil War” in which Texas and California secede and form an army to march on Washington, which has been taken over by a third-term dictator who has dissolved the FBI and ordered journalists to be shot on sight. Do you think an American civil war would be as bloody as the Spanish civil war? I would hate to think the wrong-headed, ignorant side could win.
I think it would be work. There is more ignorance in the world and more powerful weapons today. Democracy is not as strong as we think, we must protect it.